Outrage + Optimism

Former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair says that net zero is politically unachievable without radical rethinking: a shift away from reducing consumption and toward technologies that can remove carbon both at the source and from the atmosphere. So, are carbon capture and carbon removal really viable - and more palatable - alternatives to a rapid fossil fuel phaseout? And is our net zero strategy failing, or simply failing to be explained?

Hosts Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, and Paul Dickinson dive into the heart of these questions and explore what Blair’s comments mean for the wider net zero debate. At a time when climate action is becoming increasingly politicised and weaponised, they consider how we might frame net zero as something that improves people’s lives, rather than threatening them. And how we can ensure that every credible climate solution stays on the table.

With timely and provocative contributions from listeners and friends of the podcast - including former BBC News Science Editor David Shukman and Senior Policy Advisor at Carbonfuture Sebastian Manhart - the hosts ask: can we rescue the net zero brand before it’s written off?

Learn more 

The Tony Blair Institute’s report, ‘The Climate Paradox: Why We Need to Reset Action on Climate Change’

‘Aviation industry is ‘failing dramatically’ on climate, insiders say’ in the Guardian

The Future We Choose, by Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac

Our previous episode on communicating climate change with John Marshall, whose work Christiana references in this episode

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Australia heads to the polls this weekend - with climate firmly on the ballot. Is the country ready to lose its reputation as the battleground of the climate wars? And are we about to see a lasting shift in a nation that has for years been torn between its sunlight and its coal?

As a pivotal election looms, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson examine what’s at stake for one of the world’s highest per-capita emitters. After months of polling ahead, the opposition Coalition now faces a late surge from the governing Labor Party, with the Greens, Teals and independents all likely to play a crucial role. The result could reinforce, roll-back or reshape domestic climate policy, and determine whether Australia emerges as a global climate leader at a time when others are stepping away from the stage.

To understand what’s going on, the team calls up friend of the show Dean Bialek, Founder and Managing Director of The Pacific Project. Together, they explore the opportunities for Australia in the energy transition, the narratives and dynamics driving this election, and the country’s potential role as a regional leader as it hopes to host 2026’s COP31 with other Pacific nations.

So, does Australia have a role to play in reigniting regional and global climate momentum? And how will this election shape the climate fight - both within and beyond its borders.

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Philip Levin’s opinion piece in the New York Times, ‘Trump Tried to Derail Our Work. We Banded Together and Moved Forward.’

The Economist’s US cover this week, reported by Yahoo

Hungry Beast’s ‘I’m A Climate Scientist’ video

ABC News Australia’s graphic, illustrating the shift in Australia’s energy mix

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Are we witnessing the beginning of the end for fossil fuels?

This Earth Day, Outrage + Optimism explores a seismic shift in global energy: the possibility that major oil and gas companies are entering a self-managed decline. Have fossil fuel companies been overvalued for decades? And are they now quietly winding themselves down? 

For years, analysts and campaigners have questioned why these companies are valued as if they'll pump oil forever. With rising climate risks, tightening regulation, and growing investor scrutiny, the foundations of their business model have looked increasingly shaky.

Now, something remarkable is happening. From Exxon to Shell, oil majors are cutting back on capital investment, failing to replace their reserves, and instead handing profits back to shareholders. Could this be the beginning of an industry in managed decline?

In this Earth Day special, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, and Paul Dickinson sit down with Mark Campanale, founder of Carbon Tracker and the originator of the ‘stranded assets’ concept that helped launch the global divestment movement.

Is this truly the start of fossil fuel’s final chapter? Or is it a strategic pivot - away from fuels and toward petrochemicals, plastics, and a long tail of influence?

Learn more 

Adam Serwer’s article, ‘The Constitutional Crisis is Here’ in The Atlantic

Reporting on the White House deportation cartoon 

Ezra Klein’s video on illegal deportation, ‘The Emergency is Here’

Harry Benham’s Substack piece, ‘Leaving the battlefield: oil companies are quitting renewables, yes, but also quitting energy’

Carbon Tracker’s Paris Maligned

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the wake of this morning’s sad announcement about the death of Pope Francis, Christiana Figueres reflects on his important legacy as a champion for environmental and justice causes, and shares some of the late Pope’s own words, reflecting on the landmark Paris Agreement.

Learn more 

Pope Francis’s words in Profiles of Paris

Pope Francis’s encyclical Laudato Si’: On Care for Our Common Home

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

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Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

As the US retreats from international climate leadership and looks increasingly inwards, can China step up and steer the global energy transition? And if it can, what shape will that transition take?

In the latest of our country deep-dives, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson explore China’s pivotal and complex role in decarbonising our world. At home, the nation is a technology superpower, the driver behind the renewables and EV revolutions, and dominates the world in solar panels, batteries and green hydrogen. But it’s also a coal-powered polluter, with a history of taking a backseat in traditional climate diplomacy on the international stage. So, with global geopolitics and trade realigning, is it about to pick a lane?

To unpack all this, the team is joined by Li Shuo, Director of the China Climate Hub at the Asia Society Policy Institute. At a time of flux, he outlines the complex forces shaping China’s strategy, and considers what we might expect to see from it in the years ahead.

Above all, one thing is clear: China’s role will be a defining force in the next decade of climate progress. And the impact of its action - or inaction - will be felt around the world.

Learn more 

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

Instagram @outrageoptimism

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Or get in touch with us via this form. 

Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Executive Producer: Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What happens when the US tears up the rulebook on global trade? And what does that mean for the planet? Plus: what on earth is happening in Greenland? And does it really signal an unlikely MAGA embrace of climate science?

In this urgent and wide-ranging episode, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson explore the fallout from Trump’s new global tariffs, reflect on the environmental movement’s complex relationship with free trade, and ask what this moment tells us about democracy, power and inequality.

Later, Christiana shares highlights from a timely conversation she recently had in Paris, with former US Vice President Al Gore and France’s Special Representative for COP21 Laurence Tubiana. Together, they consider the impact of money in politics, the poly-solutions to our state of polycrisis, and the importance of staying (stubbornly) optimistic.

Learn more 

The New Civil Liberties Alliance Complaint for Injunctive and Declaratory Relief 

Rebecca Schneid’s article for Time, ‘Is the U.S. Heading Into a Recession Amid Trump’s Tariffs? ‘Liberation Day’ Fallout Sparks Fresh Fears’

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

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Or get in touch with us via this form. 

Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What role have fossil fuel lobbyists really played in climate negotiations over the past three decades? And what impact do they continue to have on climate progress today?

In this episode, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson explore the history of this often unseen influence, ask why fossil fuel lobbyists have become so embedded in the COP system, and consider what levers are emerging to disrupt their involvement in domestic and international politics.

This episode also features another panel from our live event at The Conduit, inspired by the RSC’s Olivier-nominated production of Kyoto, and hosted by the Financial Times’ Pilita Clark. She’s joined by climate lawyer Tessa Khan, climate finance and energy expert Kirsty Hamilton, and historian of climate change negotiations and former UNFCCC secretariat Joanna Depledge, to unpack how industry lobbyists - from oil majors to car manufacturers - used misinformation, procedural manipulation, and political influence to undermine progress in Kyoto and beyond.

So, how have fossil fuel lobby tactics changed in the years since Kyoto? Have they achieved everything they set out to? And what might the world look like if the industry had never sought to delay and derail climate negotiations - or, better yet, had taken responsibility for its role in the green transition?

Learn more

Read: This Guardian article about the Greenpeace loss in North Dakota

Watch: Climate of Concern, a 1991 film by Shell

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

Instagram @outrageoptimism

LinkedIn @outrageoptimism

Or get in touch with us via this form. 

Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford and Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What did it take to get nearly 200 nations to agree on tackling climate change in 1997? And what have we learned in the decades since?

In this episode, we reflect on the drama, the impact and the legacy of the Kyoto Protocol, and go behind the scenes of the Royal Shakespeare Company’s powerful and acclaimed production of Kyoto, currently playing in London’s West End.

After watching a performance of the play this week, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson introduced a live event at The Conduit, bringing together those who were in the room at COP3 in Kyoto with those now shaping the path to COP30 in Belém and beyond.

First, we hear from a panel of seasoned voices from the world of international climate diplomacy, moderated by climate journalist Ed King. Farhana Yamin, longtime negotiator for small island states, speaks of how Kyoto helped amplify the voices of vulnerable nations for the first time. Nick Mabey, co-founder of E3G, reflects on Kyoto’s economic impact, arguing that it sparked a global clean tech revolution by making climate action economically viable. And Richard Kinley, former Deputy Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC, offered rare insights into the diplomacy that shaped Kyoto. Together, they paint a vivid picture of Kyoto’s legacy and what it still offers to today’s climate movement.

Later, we hear from the playwrights behind Kyoto, Joe Murphy and Joe Robertson, about how they turned bureaucratic negotiations into riveting on-stage drama.

So, what’s changed since 1997? Are we in a better place thanks to Kyoto? And is multilateralism still fit for purpose in today’s world?

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

Instagram @outrageoptimism

LinkedIn @outrageoptimism

Or get in touch with us via this form.

Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producers: Ellie Clifford and Dino Sofos

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Is Canada a climate leader or a fossil-fueled dinosaur? And what will the recent ascension of Mark Carney as Prime Minister mean for the country’s climate agenda - both domestically and on the world stage?

In the second of our country deep-dives, Christiana Figueres and Tom Rivett-Carnac speak with Catherine McKenna, Canada’s former Minister of Environment and Climate Change, to discuss the mixed history, uncertain present and possible futures of the nation’s climate record.

As Canada’s representative at the COP 21 negotiations in Paris, Catherine set the tone for the decade that has followed, during which time the country has increasingly engaged in international climate leadership. Back home, she also spearheaded an innovative carbon pricing system, which, though not always popular, attempted to shift the nation away from its fossil fuel dependency while delivering an economic net benefit for most Canadians.

While former Bank of England and Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney has become widely known as a climate progressive, his first act in office was to end this carbon tax, leading many to question how his climate ideals will fare in the face of political reality. Catherine reflects on why the tax was scrapped, and the lessons that must be learned if we are to defend climate action.

Along with Paul Dickinson, Christiana and Tom consider the challenges facing former Outrage + Optimism guest Carney as he takes the helm of one of the G20’s highest emitters, and ask if we’re witnessing a wider backlash against corporate net zero commitments.

Learn more 

Read: U.S. Senator Sheldon Whitehouse’s letter seeking information about the Department of Justice and FBI investigation into the Environmental Protection Agency’s Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund and the reported freezing of grant money awarded from that fund.

Mark Carney’s statement on his decision to scrap the carbon tax 

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

Instagram @outrageoptimism

LinkedIn @outrageoptimism

Or get in touch with us via this form. 

Producer: Ben Weaver-Hincks

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

How can the law be used to champion human rights, drive progress and fight for climate justice? Paul Dickinson is joined by Laura Clarke, CEO of ClientEarth, the non-profit lawyers for the planet working to protect life on Earth. 

Laura shares how ClientEarth has successfully challenged corporate greenwashing, from the Dutch courts ruling against airline KLM for misleading customers, to forcing a Polish company to change the misleading name of its ‘eco-pea coal’. And beyond corporate accountability, how they take on national governments to ensure they uphold their environmental commitments. 

In this latest in our series on the new levers of change, co-presenters Tom Rivett-Carnac and Christiana Figueres join Paul to reflect on the ways in which law, climate and justice intersects. Christiana shares her excitement on the new ways in which the ‘web of jurisprudence’ is being woven in a field with little legal precedent. 

Plus, each share their take on the news that former Outrage + Optimism guest Mark Carney will become the next Prime Minister of Canada. How will he deal with President Trump amid the ongoing US-Canada trade war?

Learn more 

ClientEarth case study: KLM Greenwashing found illegal

https://www.clientearth.org/latest/news/we-re-joining-legal-action-against-dutch-airline-klm-for-greenwashing/ 

Read more about ClientEarth https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/client-earth-james-thornton/3713181?ean=9781911344810 

Learn about how young people are taking action in court https://www.kcl.ac.uk/climate-law/assets/climatechangeandyoungpeople-shortversion.pdf 

Find out how big oil’s campaign financing for Donald Trump’s re-election may have prevented a congressional investigation 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/06/big-oil-investigation-congress-republicans  

Follow us on social media for behind the scenes moments and to watch our videos:

Instagram @outrageoptimism

LinkedIn @outrageoptimism

Or get in touch with us via this form. 

Producer: Jarek Zaba

Video Producer: Caitlin Hanrahan

Exec Producer: Ellie Clifford

Commissioning Editor: Sarah Thomas 

This is a Persephonica production for Global Optimism and is part of the Acast Creator Network.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.